Mclean County MissFits

Do we keep home teams?

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Do we keep home teams?

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Do we keep home teams?

Post  mcmboard on Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:31 pm

There have been some discussions whether we should keep home teams for this season. In order for us to move forward with voting for a draft proposal and the drafting process, we need to post this question for the league to vote.

Please submit your vote by Wednesday, April 17th.

Thank you!
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  IceHurt on Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:44 pm

Maybe there should be some more discussion/detail on this. New league members may not fully understand all of the pros and cons of having home teams.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Camp on Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:28 pm

I agree, there are a lot of details and this is an issue that for some reason never gets discussed. I know interleague has had conversations about it regarding setting up seasons and such and it would be great to talk about it with the league.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Ima Schoolya on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:13 am

So can we discuss this here? I feel like this is a good place to air any concerns, pros and cons, etc.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Snotface on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:06 am

So...What are the major CONS? Besides the horrid drafting rules, which is the majority of the problem with home teams I would assume, I'm just curious what else is negative about having them. Mad

I understand some of the positives, team bonding, friendly rivalry, bragging rights, team pride, BUT what are some of the other POSITIVES. cyclops
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Camp on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:02 am

Ok well I don't really think its fair to discuss after the poll has open since people have already started voting...but here are my thoughts. I will be lengthy so I hope everyone takes a min to read it.

I will start with the negatives, I have been a team cap since teams where born, and I have loved and hated the idea of teams since. While having teams gives people a team bonding, it also causes a huge separation in the league and sometimes I think skaters forget that we are ALL MissFits first. I have seen skaters at their lowest during home team bouts. Cussing, flipping people off, crying, and quitting their team, quitting the league. I have had girls foster for another team and say they where not treated fair and crying on my shoulder. I have had girls from my team and other teams tell me how much they dislike the tension.
Then we have the draft...OMG its a pain in the ass and no matter what not everyone will be happy...because in the end someone feels like they where shafted. Then we have foster skaters, that always becomes a long tense convo also between capts and its frustrating.

This brings me to another point I would like to bring up, that Ice has mentioned. We don’t have enough skaters for 3 teams and even with the new group of FM we will prolly not have enough. We have never had enough, we have always had to foster skaters to other teams, so what’s the point??

If we do not get Game Time Gym we will only have 2 bouts this fall. I am not really sure how to make it fair to play 3 teams with 2 bouts??

Also another great point brought up. We are a competitive league yes? That’s why we are WFTDA and playing each other will not make us grow, playing other leagues will, if we drop the home teams we can invite other leagues here to play...from an interleague prospective it totally blows that we can take all these bouts away and we can't invite anyone here to play us Sad

I could see home teams working if we had the space, not only bout space but practice space also, but we don’t and that’s a fact. Maybe we will get game time? Maybe we won’t? We can’t really base stuff on maybe. I do love my team and I have had such a great time with them, but someone always feels left out if we have Dactyl night out...dude that sucks. I personally am in this as a MissFit and I want to be a competitive skater, I want us to move our way up the latter and play the big dogs...we play each other during scrimmage all the time.

Thats what I have for now Smile Srawry it was soooo long...
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  JMFK on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:58 pm

Camp, thank you for posting. You totally touched upon all of my "cons" for home teams, and then some. From a training committee standpoint, I just want to add that it is going to be nearly impossible in our current practice space/time situation to figure out a system so the league can keep practicing as a whole and each team has equal practice time to prepare for home season bouts.
I love my Betties so much, but I feel like at this point in our career as a league, MissFits need to focus on MissFits rather than struggle with all of the potential problems of having home teams.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  IceHurt on Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:55 pm

One of the biggest arguments I hear when it comes to home teams is that it gives everyone a place to belong and everyone gets to play a home bout- therefore, brings in $$ but travel teams do the same thing. We can always have a b/c bout if we had a c team in the future.
Playing away teams can also bring in their fans.

Nixing the hometeams can also give us the opportunity to re-rank mid season. I personally would love to see that be an option. Lots of the now B team skaters have really improved and I think could easily contend with an allstar's position. It would keep our travel teams competitive and strong.

If you think about the structure of home teams they are mixed level teams who don't practice together very often. Its hard to get these teams together on the same page and to increase their level of game play when you keep putting more fresh meat on them and try to come up up with team strategy in 1 month before you bout.

Form a WFTDA and ranking stand point, the more sanctioned games we play, the better. It will keep us current in standings and help us get experience and move up.
Here are some stories from other WFTDA leagues how have gotten rid of their home teams:

We did this in late 2008, after our third season, so we're just finishing our 4th season as A&B only.

The short term impact: We lost some folks. Those of us who were super burnt out from doing All Stars and home teams and BoD stuff were really in favor of the idea. Some of the skaters who were either newer or in the lower-skill group were afraid that they wouldn't get any play time under the new system. A few left, and those that stayed quickly found out that wasn't the case. (We never really had the numbers to support full rosters for our home teams, but somehow the numbers argument was hard to get through to people.)

Honestly, team morale was low at the time, but it was also low because we weren't winning any games with our All Star team, in part because a lot of people were skeptical of working together, worried about sharing strategy "secrets" from home teams etc.

The reasons for our decision: our numbers weren't such that home teams were sustainable, our audience found home teams confusing (Columbus playing Detroit made sense to them, 2 teams from Columbus playing each other did not), we were never able to have an off season. Oh, I could go on. Smile

-Amy Spears, Ohio Roller Girls


Here's the Steel City experience:

We got rid of our home teams, and are now bringing them back. Getting rid of home teams definitely made sense for us at the time. A lot of people were unhappy with the drama and cliqueishness that home teams had fostered. We were really focused on developing a strong charter team, and felt that home teams were holding us back (i.e., it was hard for some skaters to let go of home team rivalries and strategies and work together as part of a charter team). We went to a rather unique model: an A team and 2 equal (in theory) B teams. The league voted down the idea of A-B-C.

This worked ok for 2-3 seasons. But our league is growing and in order to accommodate growth and not lose skaters to the many smaller leagues that are cropping up around us, we decided that we needed to give more people an opportunity to skate. All 3 travel teams were maxing out around 20 skaters and we had some skaters who were unhappy because they weren't getting any play time. Adding in a large class of fresh meat would have made it even harder to develop (read: get playing time for) new skaters. We just formed 3 new home teams which will debut this month. However, we make participation on a home team optional. A little over half of our A team skaters and a few B team skaters have opted for travel-only. We also feel this will keep the home teams from getting overcrowded and allowing those newer skaters to get playing time. We are hopeful that this will also reduce/eliminate "home team rivalries" among travel team skaters.

-Ally McKill, Steel City Roller Derby


Omaha removed our home teams in 2009 and have had a A/B format. Our league is approximately 30 girls and our home teams was only two teams. They never had a good attendance turn out and very few fans were sad when they went away. Within the league we actually didn't even have a league vote - we were moving to a larger venue and our BoD unanimously agreed and made the executive decison and I would say the vast majority of the league agreed with it.
I will say we had some growing pains with it from trying to make sure everyone was able to play. Everyone obviously wants to play and we do try to keep A/B cross over down as much as possible. Specifically we have had to open up lines of communication from our Coaching Committee when it comes to determining the rosters for those "in between" girls. We have also worked really well on scheduling for our B team and ensuring we have a wide range of skills that we play so we can play stronger B teams to help grow a more competitive B team - but also picking newer teams to play our B team to ensure that new fresh meat all has a chance to play at least one game for that season.
We also now have a practice facility where we can break up our schedule where we get both league time as well as B and A time only. I think that is important.

-Sharon Misery, Omaha Rollergirls


At its November, 2012, quarterly meeting, the Philly Roller Girls membership voted to do away with its traditional 3-home-team/2-Travel Team structure in favor of an all-Travel Team arrangement (A, B, and C teams, as well as a rookie/transfer team).

Positive motivations for the move included creating a "Philly vs. The World" theme for home bouts, where our fans would be comfortable cheering for the home team (PRG) against outside challengers. It was also felt by many that the level of play on travel teams was of a more competitive, higher quality, and that this would be a better product to present to the public. (Philadelphia is now home to TWO other roller derby leagues that skate flat and banked track by MADE and OSDA rulesets. There is no shortage of entry level roller derby here. Our larger metropolitan area features another handful of leagues.)

We were also trying to address perceived internal rivalries and intra-league animosity centered around competition against one another, to develop Philly Roller Girls as a cohesive league.

Major concerns about the switch included whether we would be able to provide adequate playing time for all league members, as the Home Teams had been a place where every league member could expect to get public bouting opportunities without the additional need to audition or undergo any supplemental assessment.

Our 2013 schedule is allowing for a "phase out" of the Home Teams by turning them into Training Crews for our traditional Sunday league scrimmage practices. There were some player trades among the teams as well. Each home team is scheduled for a "low production" Sunday bout against a local rival, to allow loyal fans the opportunity to bid goodbye to their favorites and to provide a mechanism for selling Home Team-branded merchandise.

We've just embarked on this journey, so unfortunately I don't have a lot of results to discuss. There has been some opposition to change, mostly concerned with the change itself. We continually emphasize WE ARE PHILLY, and make the point that we ALL are Philly, not just the members of the representative team.

I can keep you posted as we move along.

We are committed to seeing this structure through at least a two-year trial, with 2013 being a year of transition. If we decide after the two years to bring Home Teams back, they will be re-branded to identify with Philadelphia neighborhoods, and with less potentially-offensive names and themes.

-Vdiva, Philly Rollergirls
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Ass.Crack.Jack on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:14 pm

Thanks for sharing Ice!
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Camp on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:55 pm

Yes thank you and I would like to point out this

"Honestly, team morale was low at the time, but it was also low because we weren't winning any games with our All Star team, in part because a lot of people were skeptical of working together, worried about sharing strategy "secrets" from home teams etc."

It has been a problem in the past and in my opinion extremely frustrating.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Sunshine Bash Her on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:31 pm

When I think of home teams I think of the comradery and the fun I have had as a Dactyl. I think of the draft party and the functions we've had as Dactyls outside of practice. I think other teams have done similar things and felt the same ways. I think this is a place to feel more included especially as Freshmeat. I also have heard and seen some of the negatives a lot of you are talking about, even though I have never really experienced it myself. I like the idea of creating a C team if we have enough skaters so everyone gets an opportunity to be on a team and skate if they want to. What I think I will miss if home teams are taken away is the fun with the logos and colors schemes and draft parties. But, having said that I think it is more important that we come together as the Missfits and not have anger towards each other especially when we're traveling and playing together a lot more as A and B teams.

sunny
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Ginger Spite on Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:47 am

I understand that intraleague tension can be a problem. But from a skater's perspective, this tension did not seem to last very long, and occurred during moments where tension was expected (drafting skaters and picking fosters). After that tension subsided, and it always did, the bouts were a lot of fun! I also think most that are on intraleague teams have really enjoyed their team comradery. Also, I know all of us have been willing to foster for the other teams, and we have enjoyed those experiences as well!

I'm also not sure if we do away with home teams that we will solve the tension problem. The Push did do away with their home teams, yet I noticed that all the former Polka Bots would still wear their red shirts at any opportunity, the Hard Knocks would do their hand signals, and things like that. It seemed like the team bonds still existed, even though the teams did not. However, things like that would exclude any new league members. It seems like it would just entrench some cliquish behavior. So, I think we might be exchanging one type of tension (between teams) for another one (between older and newer league members). Also, rumor has it that the Push are bringing their home teams back.

Also, I really like our home teams. I am glad that it allows members of different skill levels to skate together. It does provide a lot of fun bonding. I know that I can jointly identify as both a Missfit and a Dactyl. I think we all can.

I also did send a message to some people who play for my hometown league the Bellingham Roller Betties. They are a Division 2 League in Bellingham, Washington, and they have three home teams as well. If some of them respond, I'll post their responses here.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Camp on Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:14 pm

I do want to also piont out that the tension thing is NOT the biggest problem it is simply a very little part to the bigger problem.

We simply do not have the #s to fill them, the space to practice together, and bout as home teams and we want to grow as a WFTDA league.

I do agree that home teams are fun and I love them, however at this time in the league how does keeping them make any sense other than being fun?
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  IceHurt on Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:14 pm

I have to agree with Camp. The training opportunities that will open up for our travel teams will be the biggest benefit for the league when it comes to getting rid of home teams. We will have so much more time to practice together and work on strategy.

If we dont want the home team cliques to stay after we take away the teams, well thats up to all of us. Are you going to keep having "dactyl dates" after the teams are gone? you'll have to think about how that will affect your leaguemates.

I love what philly says about "philly vs world" wouldnt it be nice to all stand united as a league? Its the direction were heading even with the jerseys.
Even our travel teams have a seperation right now. We are not going to work together as well as we could if we cant unite on some front and train together as a league.
Winning against Missfits will never feel as good as winning against the world for me.
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team

Post  MisterBates on Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:20 pm

i look good in any color really!! i like home teams but i also want to get rid of them... from a pr standpoint alot of fans are confused, joe schmo off the street doesnt know the dactyls from the betties from the cupquakes... and without fans we wont have derby.... just sayin the allstarrs and wannabes are much easier to explain to virgin spectators than the hometeams!Smile yes the clicks will persist they have been present our entire life we just got to color coordinate this time around !! we are all adults and can make a conscious effort to include the newbies if thats what we see as a major problem. in closing i have no problem wearing green to all of our bouts!!!! i love all you betches!!
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Ginger Spite on Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:42 pm

Well, of course I would try to avoid being cliquey and such, and I think we all would. I was just explaining what I observed from the Push.

Anyway, I understand the reasoning behind getting rid of the home teams as well. I do want to reiterate though that if we do get rid of them, then working out how everyone is going to be able to bout and skate (C Team, more opening mixers at our bouts, etc.) should be a priority. We already do not have everyone rostered on our travel teams and we have fourteen fresh meat coming in as well, and they all are eventually going to want to bout too. The one good thing about home teams is that it really did provide everyone an opportunity to bout.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Jerzii BurnPike on Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:16 am

Ability practice 3 times a week, having skilled skaters to train all levels, learning the rules, understanding your fellow skaters, keeping up with the newest derby world news, getting involved with your leagues committees and seeing first hand how this whole thing called roller derby comes together is what we the McLean County Missfits provide once we make the team as fresh meat or transfers. What we all do with it separately is up to us as individuals.


In a competitive WFTDA league working hard at all the above is really what EARNS skaters the opportunity to participate in bouts.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  IceHurt on Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:25 am

JERZII BURNPIKE!

You should earn the opportunity to bout. The Mclean County Missfits do not owe it to anyone to give you the opportunity to bout.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Laura on Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:24 pm

I don't have a dog in this fight (see my other post today) - but if you want to keep the home teams going, here's what I'd suggest.

See if you can book one of the outdoor rinks at a public park for home team bouts, or find some other cheap/free place to set up a track. Convince them to let you charge a little bit for admission, or at least sell snacks and ask for donations, but do everything you can to keep costs as low as possible. Book a series of home bouts - say, every other/every third Thursday night, for the summer. Single-headers. The team that's not playing can work the bout. Let this lead to a championship - either the two top-ranked teams playing (and then a travel-team bout or some sort of mixer, if you want a double-header), or a tournament with shortened bout lengths - as your only home-team game played at the expensive bout site.

Cheap cheap cheap is the key. Get people used to consistently seeing OK derby, and paying a little for it, so they'll pay more to see good derby when you bring in good teams to play the travel teams in the spring and fall. Make 'em sit outside with mosquitoes and humidity and bring their own chairs, so they'll be excited about paying $10-15 for air conditioning or heat or no rain-outs. When you publicize the travel team bouts, publicize the WFTDA rankings and such.

If you did this, you could expand the league, because you could allow everyone who wanted to to bout regularly on a summer home team - it would be more like a recreational league. More skaters=more dues, but skaters aren't going to participate if they can't bout. The better skaters from the home teams would then feed the 2 travel teams.

The key would be finding a place to set up, someplace cheap or free where they'd still let us have admission and possibly sell stuff. There are a couple of park rinks. What about tennis court complexes? Large outdoor basketball areas? Church parking lots? Is there an outdoor amphitheater? A farmer with a big empty pole barn?

Just an idea......(Sorry, Ice) You could also just get rid of the home teams :-)
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  IceHurt on Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:37 pm

Hey don't be sorry everyone is entitled to putting their ideas and views out there! Sorry to you all because I'm pushy about mine. I'm passionate. Actually I like the idea of rec leagues, or derby lite. I almost took the chicago course to become a derby lite instructor but it cost a lot and I didn't think it was going to pay off. Rec league gives the lower level skaters and skaters who don't have as high of a commitment level a place to thrive and can feed skaters to the travel teams. I have heard really good things about them. But you have to have the numbers. And we really don't at this time.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Becky Hicks Hutchison on Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:17 am

Being new to the league and not being drafted yet I have had mixed feelings about this drafting. I really appreciate everyone's input so far!!!

From the beginning I couldn't wait to be drafted & I wanted to be "Cupquake" I wanted to work hard so I would be noticed. As the months have went on I've realized we are all one team. We are all MISSFITS!!!! I love that!!! If I have a choice I would like to see more A & B bouts instead of interleague bouts. I would like to see MissFits host other teams/play closer to home. I think right now we should focus on making our self a better league!!! We are trying to be more competitive.

I can see that interleague could be good from a competitive stand point: Playing with the vets is very helpful but can also be overwhelming. More so when we are scrimmaging together. I often wonder if this is how interleague will feel like? I'm not on the same skill level. However, I do want to be competitive & I never will be if I don't just get out there. So if interleague will do that that for me then I'm all for it!

I also wonder is interleague the best way to try to be competitive bc we already know how many of us play, we know what to expect, we know our teammates strengths & weaknesses.

Believe me I want nothing more than a drafting party & have a group of MissFits that I can bond with. I want to hopefully be able to call myself a CupQuake BUT I also want to be the best skater I can be!!! We take 2-3 days away from our kids & our families & we use our "ME TIME & MONEY" on derby. We love this sport!!! I personally am not doing this as just for something "fun to do" although it is fun. I want to put my time in & work my butt off so I can be competitive & I want to bout. I want every opportunity to bout. 2-3 days a week equals a lot of time away to only have a couple bouts a year. I don't want to bout bc i put my time in, I want to bout bc Ive EARN my place to bout!!! I'm only going to EARN my spot if I'm competitive!!!

Sorry this has gotten so long. And I know I'm just a newbie & I've talked about more than just Drafting & Interleague but I believe in the end we need to look at this as a whole. My only questions is will this make us a better team?

Becca D.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Katrina Hoare on Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:24 pm

I just want to play! The more I practice the more I want to play. The more I practice the better I get. I think :-) I love you Ladies and what you think is best I will do and follow.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  MollzDeep on Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:10 pm

My PR point of view:

As someone who is not on a home team, I can't comment on the clique behaviors that come from separating the league, however I have noticed it. I was really excited to be drafted and finding another level of identity within the league; but if I'm being honest playing on a home team makes no difference to me as long as I'm able to practice and bout in the end.

I haven't talked to a lot of the fans, but I know that when I went to bouts (before I was in the league), I thought the home teams were really fun for the audience. The biggest thing that comes to mind is that we need to have enough home games to keep our community interested in us- so I like the idea of having low key bouts just for the home teams, and keep the fans engaged in what we're doing. If all we had were A and B teams, and that equals 2 home bouts for the whole year- that's kind of a bummer.

If there was a way to have more home bouts, without designating home teams - then I don't care about home teams.

The end. cheers
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  nonny noisemaker on Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:57 pm

This is some good discussion. I appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts, feelings, and concerns especially some of you newer MissFits who haven't been on a home team yet. Hearing what you have to say on this issue is important.
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Re: Do we keep home teams?

Post  Camp on Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:30 pm

nonny noisemaker wrote:This is some good discussion. I appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts, feelings, and concerns especially some of you newer MissFits who haven't been on a home team yet. Hearing what you have to say on this issue is important.

I agree! I really love to the hearing the opinions of the newer Fits!
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